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Aaron's avatar

The distinction between “internal to God’s eternal intention” and “not constitutive of God’s eternal identity” is elegant, but I think it ultimately depends on a metaphysical assumption that deserves further scrutiny.

If creation is truly internal and eternal (i.e., if it is not an afterthought, not extrinsic, and not secondary), then it becomes difficult to see in what sense it could fail to be constitutive without reintroducing, at least formally, a non-relational remainder in God. A relation that is real, eternal, and internal, but not constitutive, risks collapsing back into a refined version of externality.

This is where I think something deeper is at stake and where the relative absence of the Holy Spirit in these discussions is telling.

Much of the debate is framed in terms of “God” and “Christ,” identity and revelation, eternity and history. But without the Spirit, the ontology of presence and participation remains underdeveloped. The Spirit is not simply the application of a prior divine intention; the Spirit is the living actuality of divine presence—the one in whom God is not only revealed to creation but present as participatory communion.

If that is the case, then the question is not whether the world is constitutive of God as an external object—it clearly is not—but whether divine identity is intelligible apart from the eternal relational act in which God gives himself, expresses himself, and is present. Once presence (pneumatology) is taken seriously at the ontological level, the gap between “internal” and “constitutive” becomes much harder to sustain.

Put differently: if relation is not merely economic or revelatory but ontologically primitive, then identity is not something that stands behind relational expression. It is precisely what is actualized in it.

This does not entail that God “needs” the world in any deficient or developmental sense. But it may mean that divine identity cannot be meaningfully described apart from the eternal, living act of self-giving that is revealed in Christ and present in the Spirit.

Джон Sobert Sylvest's avatar

In her 2012 thesis, The Theological Significance of Chance: Temporal Divine Action Discerned through Probability and Complexity Theory, at St Mark's National Theological Centre, School of Theology, Charles Sturt University, Alice Murray argued that Jenson’s and Bracken’s acknowledgements of the possibility of a tri-polar presence of God have resonance with a three domain model of reality.

She distinguished three domains of reality by their relation to our concept of time:

1. God’s infinite, timeless domain of embracing love from which creation and hence

time itself was enacted,

2. The eternal, everlasting, spiritual domain which is the all-embracing dimension of

creation, and

3. The material, transient domain in which the temporal process of the universe is played out.

I had previously appropriated Joe Bracken's Divine Matrix through the lenses of Bonaventure & Peirce. Murray's framing furnished even more coherence.

When I'd first read JDW's Whole Mystery manuscript, I responded to him that it read to me as being fully consonant with my understandings of both Fr Gelpi's Maximian Narrative Christology & Fr Bracken's Divine Matrix.

It is with Gelpi & Bracken (Murray's) that I've (constructively?) appropriated JDW ever since. When I first encountered DBH's body of work, I engaged it as being fully consonant with my understandings of Fr Lonergan's works.

While I receive DBH's Christomorphic vision as theo- bedrock as in conversation with my above-mentioned Jesuit co-religionists, as I mentioned to Fr Al a few days ago: While JDW goes beyond DBH and sharpens the old Christ-specification pencil further, on my reading, Jordan has not broken the point.

If one approriate's JDW through Bracken (Murray's), where does that leave the argument?

DBH gets the veto: The infinite & timeless God is not made God by the world. God is not completed by creation, history, evil, or even by the Incarnation. This is the domain of nondeterminate being without modality & of divine archetypal intentions.

JDW gets his finite eternal & everlasting creation & Incarnation as historically & temporally manifest in Bethlehem. These are the finite created domains of determinate being & modality, wherein the Son became & eternally becomes God. That's another story. The greatest one ever told.

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